What I Learned When I Accidentally Tried To Go To The Hot Flash Dance For Women Only
Ten days ago, I posted an article to this website about being turned away from the Halloween Hot Flash Dance for being a man. I had intended to see the B.B. Dolls perform at the event and I was accompanied by two lesbian friends.
My article sought to explore the necessity – in 2009 – of an exclusive public party. Turning men away at the door carries some negative consequences, all of which were explored in the article. They will not be replayed here.
Four days after the article was posted, I met with Pauline and Joyce – organizers of the Hot Flash Dance Parties. It was a phenomenal experience. One that has the potential to be positively transformative.
The three of us listened to each other. They both understood my feelings and I understood theirs. The bad experience began with my embarrassment at being turned away from a party I had promoted on my own website. Then I wrote a controversial article. It all beautifully culminated in a heartfelt discussion about men, women, parties, business and generational differences in our fabulous community. More importantly, the meeting ended with a hug.
In order for me, a gay man who has been out since 2003, to understand why lesbian women of a certain generation want a women’s-only party, I have to put myself in their shoes. Pauline pointed out that it may be impossible for me to do that. She is right. Even as the abundant reasons were laid before me, I could not fully understand how they equate to exclusion being a good idea in our community. However, it is not that they are wrong and I am right – it is just that the shoes don’t fit.
It is painfully clear to me that Pauline and Joyce have thoughtfully considered their options and that they are providing a service that hundreds of women, mostly lesbian women, in Portland desperately want: a party without the presence of men. Like me, Pauline and Joyce are businesspeople. They must provide what their customers want. That is one part of our conversation I clearly understood!
It was out of this part of the conversation that THE IDEA was born. What if those of us who would love to see a party for “all LGBT folks (21+,) featuring old skool music from the 70s, 80s and 90s along with the best dance music from 2009″ created our own “coed” party? The idea was barely on the table before the three of us lit up and started talking excitedly. Hot Flash is on board. Fabulous PDX is on board. We started coming up with names for our “open to everyone” party: Fabulous Flash, Hot Crash, Hot Mess…
In order for this to work, we need people to come to the party. Will you join us? If it sounds like a good idea, please chime in and let us know. This party will be targeted to fabulous (i.e LGBT) people in Portland over the age of 35 – but it will be open to anyone who wants to attend. Please leave your comments below.
I learned many things from a fabulous lesbian couple who agreed to meet with me even though I had questioned their creation. I can respect someone’s right to enforce a policy, even if I disagree with it. The passion a group of people may feel about excluding me from their party has nothing to do with me. We can all understand each other without agreeing with each other. Sometimes the positives outweigh the negatives.
Pauline and Joyce graciously agreed to clear up the wording on their party announcements to make it clear that the regular Hot Flash party is for women only – something that would have prevented me from trying to attend in the first place. I agreed to continue to promote their events on Fabulous PDX. But most importantly, we agreed to start a dialog about co-hosting a Hot Flash-style dance party for men and women. Now, we need to hear from you. Sound good?
NOTE: What happened to the original article? Well, when you create a beautiful feast, you invariably end up with a messy kitchen. It’s not like you really WANT your dinner guests to see the dirty kitchen, so you close the door. The original article was the dirty kitchen that resulted in this feast – an idea to make a positive out of a negative. So, I removed the article. The kitchen door is closed.
–Rob Patton, 11/18/09
Tags: Hot Flash
I’m sure my partner and I would attend an event like the Hot Mess Dance. Depending on the size I would be skeptical going in by ticket price, bar and restroom lines as can be the unpleasant realities of a big event and limited venues to pull if off well. There is some irony in where this idea was born and the fact that LGBT party goers under 35 are excluded. I’m sure you have had that discussion already.
On a similar note, I recently bought on a silent auction a 2 nights stay at a Men’s Resort in Las Vegas. I chose it because a good women friend of mine lives there and it would be a good opportunity to spend some time with her. Of course it didn’t occur to me she would not be welcome to hang around the pool and have cocktails with us there. She was a bit annoyed with the policy but we decided it will all work out and we’ll have a good time together anyway.
Hi Bob – Thanks for the feedback. Pauline, Joyce and I will be meeting soon to start planning the party. We do NOT intend to exclude anyone. I would like to target the party to a certain age group, but exclude no one. This increases the opportunity for people with common backgrounds (age, in this case) to gather together without excluding others.
Thanks for giving me a chance to clear up that point.
can rednecks come? (to the party)
Well this was a delicious read. I would come to the party. The name “hot mess” is used for a pretty big party in seattle, fyi. A couple questions and comments…There are a few things in my opinion that contribute to the success of hot flash: 1. The exclusivity 2. The time of the party for its audience 3. Reputation (Pauline & Joyce). So exclusivity is out on this round, but what about the time of day? Would it be an early evening party like hot flash? Cuz that’s kinda cool. Either way, I will support it. =)
Timothy – Yes, in fact, a person with NO discernible neck is even allowed to attend (I had to be sure to include myself!)
Ryan – We are still in the planning stages, including the naming, but my vote is for an early party that is targeted but not exclusive. Thanks! I really appreciate your support.
What a beautiful outcome … such power in sharing information and seeking understanding … wonderful!
It still begs the question, why there is the division in our “community” that makes lesbians want their own event. While women aren’t excluded from bear events, for example, they may choose not to attend (to avoid be outnumbered)… but they certainly aren’t barred from entry. If a group were to have a minority only, race-based entry system, there’d be no way it wouldn’t receive major media attention. I’ll give it to the owners of Hot Flash, they succeeded in both continuing a discriminatory event and in distracting you from doing so by agreeing to help with a joint venture.
I have to say that I really will probably avoid a Hot Flash dancing scenario, even though i understand the specific service thats trying to be provided, as I beleive that we are at a time in history that one cannot tell, based on genitals alone, if someone if lesbian, intersexed, trans, etc. for this reason I won’t ever be attending these dance evening unless they become all inclusive.
Would love to be a part and only a part of all inclusive events – So, YES please let me know how thats forming.
uh…I am for ANY party that is fun, plays great music, has Fabulous Portland Men and Women attending, and has alcohol!!
Here’s my question.
Why isn’t there a place for those of us caught in limbo? Not 18 but not 21? Where in the hell do we go? Can we go?
I’m thinking about opening MY own 19+ club, so that LGBTQ people who are young but aren’t quite babies can have someone where to party too. We’re ALWAYS overlooked except for stupid game nights and other not-so-exciting outings.
So, what happened to this idea? I’m late to this website, but inquiring minds want to know…is the dance party happening occasionally? When and where??
Hi! Thanks for responding. Unfortunately, busy lives have kept us from putting this party together, but I think we all have high hopes to put something together. We may need a little help!
Thanks!
This little bee is wondering when someone will do a 20+ party for those of us LGBTQ people who aren’t teens but aren’t 21 either. Damn. Summer is getting way too boring…
Long time coming… and kudos to your personal evolutions… be there with old skool bells on
I’ll come and I’ll help put something together
Whatever. I’m a lesbian/dyke/queer/boi who has been denied entry to “men’s” bars in Portland, Seattle, and Chicago. When these establishments stop their bias within our community I might empathize with men not being able to go to Hot Flash. Men shouldn’t bitch until their bars, ALL of the traditionally men’s/boy/bear/etc. bars, identify and function in a way that welcomes the entire community.
@Chance:
Of course, you missed the point entirely. The whole thing went from “bitching” to understanding. But then, why read the whole article when you can jump in with your “bitching” based on only one part?
Also, anyone who claims that a place is allowed to treat people unequally until ALL OTHERS treat people equally has no understanding of how societies change in a positive way. But then again, that sort of lack of understanding is to be expected from someone who cannot even finish an article before writing a flame-inducing response.
Thanks for being the example of what is often wrong with our community (misdirected anger) and allowing me the opportunity to respond.
Here’s to hoping you ponder changing your attitude after the anger dies down.